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MedHelp Member's Question

Benzo Addiction

by itsadogslife, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
Tags: Addiction
I am currently tapering from an original addiction to 6 mgs of Xanax originally prescribed for GAD. I switched to 30 mgs of valium and tapered to 15 in one week, 10 the next and then to 7.5. At this point, I slowed my taper to a 1 mg. cut per week. I am currently at 4 mgs and it seems that the symptoms have increased with this slower taper. Should I increase the cuts and just get it over with or stay on this schedule? I believe at this low dose I would not be at risk for seizures but I could be wrong. The resultant insomnia, mood swings, shakiness and anxiety have gotten worse in the past weeks. I'm at a loss to explain why this didn't occur when I made the larger cuts and is happening now.



Also, does use of alcohol interfere with the taper? I have noticed when used occasionally it does provide some relief and doesn't seem to have a negative impact but have been told it is cross addictive with benzos.



Finding a doctor is not an option. They don't know anything about benzo dependency and there are no treatment programs where I live.



itsadogslife
Member Comments (18)

by PING, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: itsadogslife
hi there, i was wondering the same thing about booze drinking, while tapering from oxcontin, i am down to 2 10mg per day, i am feeling real bad while doing this tapering, i know it says no drinking, while takeing any of these pills. but i don't think as small amount as i am on now, would be any problem, would like some advice on this.

                                lee.

by bmac, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: Lee
Hello Lee,I've been thinking about you lately and wondering how you are doing.My pain doc says alcohol doesn't mix will with pain meds but told me a couple glasses of wine 2 or 3 times a week does no harm to most people.I think alcohol is only a problem if it was a problem before.I know AA and NA says drinking or any type drug is bad but I don't believe in their 12 step stuff anyway.I do however trust my doctor.He is an addiction specialist and says alcohol can only be a problem if it is abused with the taking of pain meds.I only drink an occassional glass of wine with dinner sometimes and I have never craved it under different circumstances.Now I don't drink beer or hard stuff anymore and have been clean from it for over a year now(except 2 slips)which I regreted.But if my doctor says it's OK then I tend to believe him.

I am so glad to see your tapering is going well.I know how it can make you feel and I didn't taper correctly and paid the price.I wish you good luck at getting down to zero.You have come along way.

                        Bill

by itsadogslife, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: Lee - Drinking
Whenever I've mixed alcohol and narcotics, it hasn't really effected me adversely. I think there is more of a synergistic effect with benzos.



I'm not sure that alcohol would help relieve opiate wd symptoms the same way it does with the benzos. It's my understanding it has more of an effect on the GABA receptors which are effected by benzos.



However, I don't think if you drank a glass of wine or a beer or whatever to relax it would hurt you.



I also don't believe in the total abstinence philosophy of the 12 step groups. How can you tell a chronic pain patient they can never take another narcotic because they abused them in the past?



Or, in my case, once I'm completely off the benzos, does that mean I can never take another one even if I have an anxiety attack?



itsadogslife

by Bodymechanic, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: Dogs ....Sfc
The problem with drinking if you have a drug problem is the possiblity(probability) of substituting one addiction for another. This is very, very common. You are also putting additional stress on your liver and nervous system which is already busy adjusting to the discontinuation of other drugs.



Doglife



There are 2 medication which may help you get through this,  doxipin and clonidine.  The clonidine will help you with the anziety, shakes and sweats. It will also prevent the unlikely occurance of seizures. The doxipin will make it easier for you to sleep at night. They are available over the internet.  You could probably have them in your hand in 36 hours if you do a good search. Benzo's are very difficult to kick. You may want to slow the taper.

by hippy, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
one problem with drinking with a lot of people

is that it has a tendency to wake you up in the middle of the night and then you can't go back to sleep.

even if it is only a 2 or 3 glass of wine.

when we are getting off pain meds or benzo's

sleep is always a problem, along with restless leg and body.

and severe depression. and lack of energy.

the more i read about buprenorphine, it sounds like

a real  good way to detox of of the meds.

by itsadogslife, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: Bodymechanic § hippee
Bodymechanic, a friend of mine in another state where they actually have detox programs for benzos was prescribed doxepin so you must know your stuff. They also detoxed her in one week with phenobarbital. Ouch. Maybe, you should clue them in there :) As for the alcohol, I know, I know. But it does relieve the symptoms. And I can run up to the delimart and buy a six pack for a few bucks :)



Hippee, I don't know if you're aware of it or not or if it's been discussed here, but bup has finally received FDA approval for detox. It had been available only as a pain med. Finding a doctor to prescribe it would probably be a whole other thing. My husband used it for a cold turkey detox from OC's and swears by it. He had to buy it from overseas at the time so it's good news it's finally available here.



itsadogslife

by hellbent, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
To: itasadogslife
One problem with alcohol when tapering might be your behaviour when you are on it. I know that when I drink, my defenses go down. In fact, if I feel good enough after a few drinks, I'll usually have a few more to feel even better. Then, I might call some old friends and get an 8ball of coke. Then I'll need pills to come down. No, alcohol probably wouldn't work, for me, when trying a strict taper.



I came off of benzos 7 months ago, cold. It was about as bad as it can be. You have done real, real well to get your dose down where it is now. The symptoms will increase as you drop down. If you have been on these things for a long time, even very small reductions in dose over a two week period may be noticeable.



My advice is to keep to your schedule no matter how you feel. Are you epileptic? If so, then you may be at risk for seizures. If you're not, you probably aren't. I never felt like I was going to go into a seizure, though I had plenty of horribble symptoms.



Most people are never able to kick benzos once they have a bad habit. You are on your way and I suggest you gut this one out and get free.

by Jennibean, Dec 04, 2002 12:00AM
I think it is just a coincidence that you started feeling worse when you slowered your taper. Have you heard the term "the lower the slower"? That means the lower your dose gets the slower you should taper. When you were making larger cuts you were also still taking a large enough dose and your body could handle it. when you started to taper slower your dose was also getting pretty low so I am positive if you would have continued with the larger taper you would feel even worse than you are now. Did I say that right? Even with opiates if I was used to taking 10 at a time several times a day I could go down to taking 4 at a time instantly and still feel ok even though that was a huge taper 4 at a time was still enough for my body to handle it. Now when you get even lower like when I got to taking 1.5 at a time it doesn't matter how quick or slow I tapered my body wanted more than 1.5 at a time. Basically at this point in your taper getting on the lower dose would have made you feel yucky no matter what. Hope that makes sense. Good Luck to you! I would continue slowly because you are already feeling crappy but it does delay the inevitable. You could do it all and feel really really crappy or do it slowly and feel just really crappy.

by itsadogslife, Dec 05, 2002 12:00AM
Thanks to everyone for your input. I guess I will stick to the taper. Hellbent, you have my admiration for getting off these drugs. I do have a fairly long term addiction but not as long as some people I've read about. I think any long term drug addiction probably has a high recidivism rate.



itsadogslife



PS How often does the doctor here check in and answer?

by Witchywoman, Dec 05, 2002 12:00AM
To: itsadogslife
The Doc answers two new questions a day, but he doesnt' answer the comments, only the two new questions that the system allows to be posted. So don't expect that he'll scroll through our comments and answer anything else. Try to get one of the questions if you have a question for him.  That's why it really matters that we use those two new questions for actual questions for the Doc rather than comments or just starting new threads.





love,

WW

by Rex1, Dec 05, 2002 12:00AM
To: Itsagodslife, Sobriety 2003 Challenge members
Congratulations on your decision. You can join us if you want on our 2003 Sobriety Challenge - you will only be 5 days behind! Here's a repost of my challenge - sorry its so long:

-------------------------------------------------------------

OK, so I have gotten so many positive responses to the challenge concept, that it is hereby declared a GO! (My follow up post will spell out how to build your taper schedule)



I have given this a lot of thought and here, in my humble opinion, are the key points to keep in mind.



----------------------------------------------------------

2003 SOBRIETY CHALLENGE - HOLIDAY TAPER PLAN -

Dec 1st - Start

Jan 1st (or sooner) - End

----------------------------------------------------------



The idea is that everyone here, as a group, start our tapering plan today, and we support each other in our efforts such that, by Jan 1st, 2003, we are all at a ZERO dosage with our drug of choice.



There are several key points that I have gleaned from everyone here, plus other sources:



1) Accept the fact that you will be in some pain. Deal with it in any way you can without narcotics! Notice that the 2003 sobriety challenge says nothing about being pain free! Accept the fact that you will be dealing with pain without pain killers by the end of the tapering process! There are so many weapons at your disposal - use them all. More on those in a follow-up post.



2) We are powerless over substance abuse - We cannot do it alone! This is the basic premise of AA,NA, ect. Asking for help from a doc, a spouse, or others here is not important - IT IS A REQUIREMENT! We should put our tapering plan down on paper or in a spreadsheet/calendar program and then share it with someone, so we will not deviate from it. I showed mine to my wife and said "Heres my plan, help me stick to it!" Letting a medical professional in on the plan is a great way to build an extra security net, and get advice from a pro, of which I am not.



3) Most (not all) agree that Tapering is easier than cold-turkey! Tell ourselves over and over - "If I don't cut my dose, day over day, week over week, what am I setting myself up for?"

The answer of course is something far worse, like in-patient detox, or a week of cold turkey. Which would we prefer? Tapering must be easier. See my next post for how to do the tapering schedule.



4) Your higher power wants to help. Will you let Him? This is potentially the most controversial subject for some here, so-reminder-this is just my opinion. However, all AA/NA programs use this as their core concept. God wants us to be sober, no? If you beleive that, then He already has a plan for your life, and all you have to do is ASK for help. Prayer works folks - I promise it does, and millions of people swear by it. Remember, in the entire history of mankind, it is only in the last 30 years that America and the world has kicked God out of our lives. Before that God was the underlying reason to be living, and was a key concept in the founding of the United States. In the last 3 decaded though, we have been told we can do it ourselves! And look at where we are, what we have become. God is there for you. Turn to face Him, an ask for help.



5) Use the Thomas recipe - it really works!



6) Do the opposite of what we have been doing while using. If we go to this street corner where our dealers are, do the opposite - go as far away as possible! If we go to three docs in one month, go to ZERO docs in one month. If we use at a friends, well is he our friend? Go somewhere else. In other words - let's throw our narcotics-enabling habits away starting right this instant!



7)Dedicate the month of December to this problem if possible. Think of all the things that we do during the holidays, and let's tell ourselves that unless it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to do, this month, we're not doing it - NOT adding it to our plate of stuff to do. I know this will be difficult for some. But wherever possible, clear out the **** on your upcoming calendar, and write down the words TAPER TO ZERO in the December calendar in your minds. "This month my number one goal is BECOMING DRUG FREE BY January 1ST!"



8) Once we clear our calendars of unnecessary junk, and focus on Tapering to zero, now we need to stop focusing on it ;-0. Distract your mind and put it on something positive and stress free for you. Exercise, a good book, a movie series, relaxation exercise, ANYTHING! But don't sit around thinking about it, as Methman said "get moving!"



WE CAN SUCCEED TOGETHER GUYS!

------------------------------------------------------------

Think of the following analogy:



We are all in a giant dark pit, each of us having his or her own staircase leading upwards. Each staircase is close to someone elses, but you must climb your own staircase. Some us have staircases that start close to the top and are not steep at all, with easy-to-climb steps. Others have staircases that start almost at rock bottom, almost in pitch black darkness, and start out very steep with hugs steps. And each staircase is ever-changing, with the steps getting larger, then smaller, slippery, then moving left and right, then beco